We close out our look at the listings of 70 years ago today with a post about Friday, August 26, 1955.
I like that a single sponsor took out an ad listing the various programs it was responsible for:
One of the interesting syndicated daily programs that runs this week is Tele-Comics, AKA NBC Comics.
It's considered the first network animated program, with the word "animated" being used loosely! The 15-mintue series featured limited movement of various rotating segments. Here's an example:
You don't expect live sports on a random Friday afternoon, but Channel 7 has tennis, live and in color!
Here's a snapshot of early primetime, with a good array of programs:
Finally, here's a cool ad for Swing Shift Theater, a lineup of movies for people who are up late:
1) TV Guide: I'm having a lot of fun going through an old ish from 70 years ago this week and putting up a post each day. Here's a bonus from the listings for 70 years ago today: An episode of Superman!
2) Emergency!: The 1970s NBC series gets a big ol' Blu Ray box set, available this week from retailers everywhere. Well, actually you can probably only get it online.
3) Looney Tunes: Tubi TV has hundreds of the old cartoons, not in an intuitive format, but available for free streaming, at least.
4) College Football: The so-called Week Zero is here, and, yep, the games count. College football is back and, uh, more different than ever!
5) Run DMC: The group appeared on American Bandstand 40 years ago today. Dick Clark was America's Freshest Teenager!
6) Joe Regalbuto: Happy birthday to the start of The Associates!
7) National Waffle Day: Yum!
8) The Odd Couple: It aired on ABC 50 years ago tonight, but I mean the movie, not the TV series. You know what happens when you ASSUME...
9) Steve Gutenberg: Happy birthday to the star of No Soap, Radio!
Here are a few peeks at what was on 70 years ago today in the Pittsburgh area:
I like the listing of the segments in this Arlene Francis show. Ooh, a segment on draperies!
I was curious about Flynn's Inn in the above pic. Charlie Flynn was a personality at the station, WFBG, which later became WTAJ, my local CBS affiliate as I was growing up. That's all I got! I see references to the show, but not details of what it's about--something that's true in a lot of these local TV listings rabbit holes.
Way of the World, shown here on WJAC, which was my NBC station growing up, was a short-lived (10 months) soap opera that ran different stories as opposed to one continuous narrative. A permanent hostess, Linda Porter, actually actress Gloria Louis, introduced the stories, according to Wesley Hyatt's Encyclopedia of Daytime Television.
At 2:30, you see a real celebrity, and I don't mean Robert Q. Lewis. It's President Eisenhower! Some stations aired this later that night, after prime time:
Finally, a look at Frankie Laine's variety show, featuring a young Joel Grey. Again, I like the detail in the listings in these early Guides, with nearly every segment touted ahead of time. Laine's show was a summer replacement for Arthur Godfrey's program.
Laine also gets a feature story in the back of the issue.
Here's a look at some items in the listings 70 years ago today in Pittsburgh!
I wish I had this one below. I like that you're sitting there looking up what's gonna be on tonight, and then the mag tells you, hey, go get the new issue! It's already out there!
Check out what's on at 4:30 and every weekday on Channel 10: Roller Derby!
Here is what is up against the hottest show on TV, The $64,000 Question. China Smith is a syndicated adventure series starring Dan Duryea, Truth is another game show, and With a View to Music is something about which I know nothing!
Here are some highlights of the programming in Pittsburgh 70 years ago today!
Monday morning, Arlene Francis gets a new show to precede her existing program, and look who's along with her: BOTNS star Hugh "Over Easy" Downs!
The big showcase production of the day is, well, Producers' Showcase, a 90-minute prestige production.
Here's a glimpse of one of my favorite obscure shows: It's a Great Life, a syndicated sitcom about three guys living in a boarding house run by Francis Bavier. I'd love to get a set of complete episodes of that one!
Here's a look at the sports lineup for the week. Notice what's missing: Baseball! No national games in this week in August. I believe Pittsburgh Pirates broadcasts on local TV did not start until two years later.
I want to highlight a few things today, but let's start with this look at a Boy Scout jamboree!
Religion is a big part of Sunday TV (not just the morning, either, but the whole day), but unlike the heavy diet of televangelism that would become common in the eighties, you get a variety of faith-themed anthology programs, including different episodes of the same series.
And look at this episode of Pall Mall Theatre. Didn't every TV Western use this plot at one time or another?
It was 70 years ago today that...a lot of locally produced programming was on the air, at least in the Pittsburgh area. I don't only mean shows made in Pittsburgh, but shows made at local stations. It was a different time, when network affiliations were much looser and everyone was still trying to figure things out.
KDKA-2 and WJAC-6 at the time are listed as affiliates of ABC, CBS, Du Mont, and NBC! Every channel in the listings apart from WQED-13 (later a PBS station) have multiple network affiliations.
70 years ago, Saturday, August 20, 1955, this program stands out, right here in the middle:
Yep, that's our pal Fred "Mister" Rogers! Notice pals like Daniel Tiger are already here, too, in this Pittsburgh original.
Later in the day, we get Rassling. Not wrestling. RASSLING.
Here are a few ads for the shows in prime time tonight:
Here's an overview of late prime time. One thing I like about early TV is that the same show will appear on different networks, different channels, even with different episodes on the same evening. An example here is Your Play Time, one of the many, many dramatic anthologies on the airwaves this week.
Wrestling at 11:05 is obviously a different show than RASSLING earlier in the day.
Earlier in the evening, all kinds of stuff. Take 8:00's The Soldiers, a short-lived military comedy that stars John Dehner, Tom D'andrea, and this issue's cover subject, Hal March!
Musical Chairs is a panel show, I think, not a literal game of musical chairs. There's a lot of game show and music action in Summer 1955 on TV.
Yesterday I focused on the cool cover story about The $64,000 Question, but there are other features in the Guide this week. For example, this look at The Ina Ray Hutton Show, a syndicated program starring the biggest female band leader of the Big Band era. Years later, research indicated that Hutton was of mixed race and had been "passing as White" during her heyday. I don't know if this TV show exists in any form.
They were putting a lot of stuff out there in the early days of the medium, but how about TV dentistry? Jerry Robinson and Jerry Helper are nowhere to be seen here, but I trust these guys know what they're doing.
This week we'll go back in time and look at the TV Guide Pittsburgh edition from August 20-26, 1955--70 years ago!. Here's a look at the front cover:
You will notice the cover subject is Hal March, emcee of The $64,000 Question. That quiz show had premiered just about two months earlier but was the talk of the medium, breaking summertime viewership records and capturing the public's collective attention. Newspapers, street corners, water coolers...all were abuzz with discussions about the smash program.
Yes, this was one of the shows implicated in the quiz show scandals that would soon take down the genre and help lead to network, rather than sponsor, control over TV programming. $64,000 Question was not the first quiz show exposed, nor the most egregious, but it was believed sponsor Revson did influence the direction of the series in multiple ways. At least one contestant on the spinoff 64,000 Challenge (a head-to-head format, unlike the escalating-questions-solo format of its predecessor) claimed he was given answers in advance. Producer Louis Cowan became president of CBS TV after this show took off, but he was booted out in the wake of the scandals.
All this makes the issue in question (Ha!) a fascinating read. Ah, to be innocent and read this as it played out in Summer 1955, 3 years before the scandals broke. The cover story talks about how producers select contestants, not directly mentioning how sponsors might manipulate the gameplay or try to juke ratings. One amusing note mentions how producers verified that potential participants weren't "misrepresenting themselves": "Cowan checks with their, ministers, priests, or rabbis, with their banks and their place of work." Note: Lack of semicolons and Oxford commas is from the original text.
The article mentions that people write the mag all the time asking how the show can afford to give away the big cash prizes. Actually, the program is much cheaper to produce than most primetime entertainment shows, as a helpful list indicates. The Jackie Gleason Show cost over $72K per week last season, but even with cash winnings averaged in. Question is estimated at a little over $25K.
The "TV Teletype" feature at the front of the mag has an item on the show, saying that American Research Bureau figures reveal it draws 47 million viewers each week. "That's unprecedented for summertime TV.
This is my favorite reference in the issue, though, an item from the "Letters to the Editor" page:
Knowing what would happen a few years later, this is quite a thing to read here!
1) Chubby Checker: The rock legend declined to appear at the Hall of Fame induction ceremony, preferring to do a gig. Hopefully he's doing an ongoing celebration of the 38th anniversary of the Star-Spangled Celebration.
2) National Black Cat Appreciation Day: My personal favorite is Felicia Hardy, but how about some love for Salem and--Wait, he was like reddish-brown in this series?
3) Suburban Beat:40 years ago, NBC aired this unsold pilot about a group of moms who band together to solve the murder of a prostitute. The creators of Scarecrow and Mrs. King produced this one, which starred Shelley Fabares, Dee Wallace, and Patti Austin. BOTNS fave Joe Santos is in this somehow, too.
4) Back to school: All over the country, kids go back to school this week even though it's way too early.
5) WWE on ESPN: So-called "Premium Live Events" are coming to ESPN next year in a huge deal. Maybe they'll put them in that classic 4pm afterschool weekday time slot! Or if they really want to get fancy, they can bring back that Tuesday night AWA showcase:
7) MTV's The Cutting Edge: Now that MTV is almost dead as a "brand," it's especially fun to look back at when it aired stuff like this:
8) Quincy: The show left Get TV, and now it's being booted off FETV for The Jeffersons. Why am I including it here? Because it's finally time. Bring it to Peacock!
Next week, we'll start looking at a TV Guide from 70 years ago: The August 20-26 issue seen below:
One thing about going this far back in time is that every page of the listings is an adventure. It's so early that you see lots of obscure/forgotten/rare programs. We will get to those listings and try to line up more or less with what was on 70 years ago to the day, but there is a lot more in the issue, including the remarkable cover story. This cover hit newsstands mere weeks after The $64,000 Question debuted and became a sensation.
1) Police Squad!: Saw The Naked Gun last week and loved it. It was everything I wanted it to be, and it made me want to dig out my DVD of the TV show. Hey, why isn't it on Paramount Plus, though?
2) Brian Robbins: The exec left Paramount but got an $18 million going-away gift. So there's little chance he'll be doing Cameos as Eric Mardian anytime soon. He would have received $20 million if he hadn't lost the Police Squad! tapes.
3) T.J. Hooker: Multiple outlets reported that a reboot movie is headed to Netflix after it "landed the project." There was a bidding war?
Maybe there was a TekBiddingWar!
4) The Addams Family: Speaking of old properties in new times, Wednesday's second season premiered on Netflix this week.
5) Manhattan Transfer: The vocal group's summer replacement variety series (filling in for Cher) aired 50 years ago tonight and welcomed Bob Marley and the Wailers, who made their American TV debut.
6) Victor Awards: 40 years ago this weekend, this ceremony recognizing excellence in amateur and professional sports aired in syndication. I wasn't able to confirm that Vic Tayback got an honorary award at the end of the ceremony.
7) The Pink Panther: A whole bunch of Pink Panther cartoons are on Tubi, including the Seventies version and even the 1984 Pink Panther and Sons!
8) Miami Vice: Kudos again to Secret Galaxy for its spotlight on the iconic Eighties cop show this week. If you want to hear what we think about the series, click here!
9) Gary Deeb: Somehow I missed that Deeb died back in June. The Chicago media critic was the highlight of our Donahue episode a few years ago.
When we talked about Entertainment Tonight, I wasn't aware of this commercial for an apparent Trivial Pursuit ripoff based on the show:
Oh, I'd love to play this one today! Imagine sitting down with Tesh, Hart, Gibbons, Weller, Maltin, and, yes, HENDREN to play this while enjoying chips and margaritas.
1) Rodney Dangerfield's 9th Annual Young Comedians Special: This program aired on HBO 40 years ago tonight, spotlighting such upstarts as Sam Kinison, Bob Saget, and BOTNS superstar Yakov Smirnoff!
2) Dynasty: The iconic Eighties soap is now on free streamer Tubi, which seems wrong somehow.
3) Thundarr: The great Secret Galaxy YT channel took a look at the series and its context this past weel; for more on the show itself you can check out our episode right here.
4) Mrs. America 1985: 40 years ago this weekend, the annual event, taped earlier, was broadcast in syndication, won by Mrs. Mississippi Donna Russell and hosted by...Richard Dawson. Yeah, that checks!
5) Lalo Schifrin: The Forgotten TV podcast, which I really need to catch up on, posted a great episode on the career of the composer this week.
6) National Sports Card Convention: The event is taking place in Illinois this weekend, and while it says "sports," I bet there's someone else out there looking for a GEM MINT Roscoe P. Coltrane.
7) National Sisters Day: From all of us with sisters to all of those who have sisters, or to those who are sisters, or--Oh, I messed it up. Here's a clip of a show that has a lot of sisters in it.
8) This Is Spinal Tap: Laurie and I just rewatched the classic mockumentary, and, wow, is it loaded with TV stars even outside the main cast--Howard Hesseman, Fran Drescher, Dana Carvey, Ed Begley Jr., Billy Crystal...
1) Comic Books: This entire week is a celebration of comic books, what with the big con going on, an excellent superhero movie still in theaters, and a fantastic one arriving this weekend. Notice I have not used the phrase "intellectual property."
2) Fantastic Four: Every time a big movie comes out, I hope for a new release of something that hasn't been on streaming nor DVD, and every time I am disappointed.
3) Our Time: 40 years ago tonight, NBC premiered one of the networks' many attempts in the Eighties to combine summer vibes, nostalgia, and ratings. Well, 2 out of 3 ain't bad.
4) Dear John: Antenna TV runs a marathon of the series today. Celebrate the hottest days of summer with one of the coolest guys on TV: Judd Hirsch! (Antenna, feel free to use that next time you do this.)
5) Baseball Hall of Fame: This weekend we celebrate the greats of the game and their standout moments, like this one:
6) National Parents Day: Today we celebrate those who have children, who are almost always right even if TV tries to make them look foolish. Tootie's dad may well have been right wanting to pull her out of Eastland.
7) Michael Nesmith in Television Parts: The last episode of this series ran 40 years ago tonight in the SNL timeslot.
8) Korean War Armistice Day: Everyone in the 4077th can go home.
Well, I guess they might want to go back.
9) Days of Our Lives: The iconic soap opera just got renewed for two more seasons, which takes it through 63. Maybe someday it'll catch up to Gunsmoke!
10) R.I.P.: Alan Bregman, Hulk Hogan, Ozzy Osbourne, Malcom Jamal-Warner, Kenneth Washington, Chuck Mangione:
This commercial takes me right back to the days of early Eighties Spider-Man:
It sure sounds like Dan Gilvezan, then the lead voice on Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends, and they all look cool. I'm a little skeptical of the actual product, though. What does it actually do? I'm sure the heroes don't get up and walk around on the table, but what do they look like in the theatre?
This was made as part of a Rocky toy line about 20 years ago, specifically a Rocky Balboa wave. On a recent day trip, I saw this at a toy store and had to get it to add to my boxing announcers collection, which now numbers...one. Maybe it's not as BOTNS relevant as a 1984 Olympics Lampley, but I'll take it.
However, I know there was a Brent Musburger made for a Rocky III line, and more importantly, I now know a Larry Merchant figure exists. That one is now at the top of my list. Hey, whether or not you had issues with the Rocky Balboa movie, you have to appreciate that it spawned action figures of the HBO guys (Not Harold Lederman, though, I am sad to report).
I just need a George Foreman to put his arm around him in case there's a riot at ringside.
1) Mystery/suspense/thriller anthologies: We just concluded a poll in our Facebook group to determine which anthology show we will cover as our "retro retro" (Fifties/Sixties) program in our upcoming 13th season. We're not going to tell you what it is here, but you can rule out these series that didn't make the poll: Kraft Suspense Theater, Panic, Way Out...One Step Beyond...hey, all of those sound good. There's a lot of old TV out there, folks.
2) Knight Rider: The series comes out on 4K disc this Tuesday, which once again proves my theory: Videophiles love David Hasselhoff.
3) Peacock: You know, it takes a lot of brass to announce a huge price hike (3 bucks a month!) right after you get rid of Murder, She Wrote. I can only assume this increase is going to help cover the cost of remastering Quincy.
5) Six Million Dollar Man: Steve Austin was off streaming for a while, and now Roku has picked up the show to join Peacock. Well, Peacock has it for now.
6) Fantasy Island: Tubi picked up the show again, long after I complained that it left, but there's a catch: It only has the first two seasons. Wow, unforeseen consequences of getting what you want? That reminds me of an old show, but I can't place my finger on it.
7) Wide World of Sports: 40 years ago today in London, Mary Decker Slaney squared off against Zola Budd in a rematch of their infamous 1984 Olympics clash. Decker won by a considerable margin in this one.
8) National Ice Cream Day: What are you going with? I could go for a good chocolate chip mint right now.
9) Poker Face: I just want to reflect on another season of the best non-Columbo Columbo show ever, and I think Natasha Lyonne's Peter Falk is almost as good, in its own way, as Kevin Pollak's.
10) The Smurfs: A new big-screen version of the characters Smurfs this weekend. If you can take the animation style and John Goodman as Papa Smurf, I hear this isn't bad for what it is. Me, I ride with Don Messick.
1) Live Aid: Today is the 40th anniversary of the historic event. My memory may be a little hazy, but as I recall, the highlight was Phil Collins beating Freddie Mercury in some sort of transatlantic jet race.
2) Joey Stivic: As I posted in our Facebook group, one of the sidelights of my trip to Luray with Laurie was a glimpse of the original "physically correct" Joey Stivic doll:
3) Gilligan's Island: Also originally in our FB group: Another pic of a memento in the Toy Junction room next to historic Luray Caverns:
4) Bastille Day: Eh...I got nothing. Well, there was that episode of Family Ties where Mallory fell for her French tutor.
5) National Beans and Franks Day: That's more like it.
6) Didi Conn: Happy birthday!
7) Barry Diller: The former head of Paramount, also credited with creating the Movie of the Week while at ABC, is promoting a new memoir.
9) Strange New World: This TV movie (Hey, maybe Diller writes about it!) aired 50 years ago tonight on ABC. It's another of those Seventies Gene Rodenberry movies that were designed to launch a series:
10) MLB All-Star Game: One of my favorite events back in the day, the Midsummer Classic returns this week.
1) July 4 weekend: We hope everyone in the States is enjoying the holiday. I just enjoy a chance to bring out Uncle Sam Magoo again.
2) Check It Out!: What better way for me to celebrate last week's Canada Day than to begin watching the episodes on this DVD set my co-conspirator Mike got me?
3) Murder, She Wrote: The series is having a moment, what with astonishing news (The show is now out on Blu Ray--the entire series!), good news (You can now stream the series free on Tubi), and bad news (Peacock, which had MSW since launch, dropped it this month).
4) Casey Kasem: Laurie and I have discovered the I Heart Radio app's American Top 40 livestream, which runs the old radio episodes from the Seventies and Eighties and runs them--get this--without commercials!
5) The Twilight Zone: Thanks to years of tradition, many of us associate this classic with the Fourth of July. Eeeeerie!
Actually, no, it's easily explainable by all the marathons. But it's at least a little odd!
6) Joey and Dad: 50 years ago tonight, this variety show premiered as a summer replacement for Cher. In this episode, Joey Heatherton and her dad Ray welcomed guest stars like Gary Burghoff and the Captain and Tennille, along with regulars Pat Paulsen and Henny Youngman.
Now, Ray Heatherton was a seasoned showbiz pro, but how many people do you think tuned in for "Dad"?
7) National Fried Chicken Day:
8) Burt Ward: Happy 80th!
9) ALF: Shout! TV has a marathon of the series this weekend. As if cats didn't have enough to stress them out with all the fireworks.
1) The Podcast: Hey, we're still on our between-seasons break, but we aren't going anywhere. Well, I'm going to the pool, but we will be back with a nice, long season eventually!
2) The Bradys: I'm not saying you have to watch this 1990s CBS revival. I'm not saying you should. I'm not even saying--Wait, what am I saying? I'm saying I did. I'm saying I loved it. But this is a personal choice, and I cannot recommend others do so.
3) Board Games: In our Facebook group this week, I shared a couple of cool recent purchases, both TV-related board games!
No plans yet, but if we organize a Dad's Army tournament, you'll be the first to know.
4) Spirit of Excellence: 1984 Los Angeles Olympic Games: 40 years ago today, ESPN aired this program--according to The New York Times, "A rerun of that glorious opening spectacle." What about the glorious closing spectacle? I mean, it had Lionel Richie, breakdancing, and a space alien!
5) Superman: Laurie and I have our tickets for the new movie, and we just hope it's a good one. No superhero movie can exceed this one in my heart, though:
6) National Camera Day: Sounds like an excuse to see our old pal Jim Garner again.
7) Three's a Crowd: Antenna TV had a marathon of the series today because--Well, hey, who needs a reason to do a Three's a Crowd marathon, huh?
8) Hal Holbrook: The great Ron Chernow has done it again, creating a huge acclaimed biography of the great performer. I hope he delves into The Senator.
9) Gary Busey: Happy birthday to the one-time star of The Texas Wheelers (and guest on Dan August). I have a feeling if he doesn't like your present, he punches you.
10) R.I.P.: Bobby Sherman, Joe Marinelli, Lynn Hamilton, Lalo Schiffrin, Bill Moyers, Rick Hurst:
A few weeks ago, I wrote about John Tesh's "Roundball Rock" and how I was ready to move on from it. Don't get me wrong, I love the iconic NBA on NBC theme, but I wanted to show some love to the fab NBA Game of the Week theme ABC used in the Seventies.
Well, to show there are no hard feelings, I want to tout a Tesh composition that doesn't get the same kind of love: His dynamic song for the NBC's NFL coverage. Here's a nice clean copy of "Gridiron Dreams." This is electric!
And, yes, I chose that upload because of the shot of Tesh with the shades and backwards cap.
Here's a sample of it as aired on NBC: The opening to the 1989 AFC Championship:
Enberg, Tesh, NBC--I love it! The description of Browns QB Bernie Kosar as unconventional, even sometimes awkward, is great.
1) Summer: Meteorological summer is here after several weeks of emotional summer. In terms of impact, significance, and lasting memories, may your season be more Gidget than The New Gidget.
2) The Bradys: Laurie and I have been watching the 5-episode 1990 flop, sarcastically known as Bradysomething, on YouTube, and whoa, is this ever...AWESOME!
3) Robert's Retro Rewind: I want to congratulate this stellar YouTube account for completing a run of videos showcasing short-lived programs going up to Fall 1990. I respect his decision not to continue into the Nineties, though I would have loved to see that, and I look forward to whatever he has coming next.
4) Casablanca: Each year around this time, I like to watch the classic film--maybe the classic film as far as I am concerned--and it reminds me that I have yet to see the ill-fated David Soul TV series. It did get a DVD release years ago but is not in print.
5) Lindsay Wagner: We wish a very happy birthday to the former star of Jesse (shout-out again to Robert's Retro Rewind).
6) The Kopykats: The episode of this impressionist-driven comedy series that aired 50 years ago tonight featured guest star Orson Welles. I'm sure he wowed everyone with his Audrey Hepburn.
7) Michael Lerner: Happy birthday to the star of The Waltons. Wait, being told that this is actually the birthday of the late Michael Lerner, guest extraordinaire on our Streets of San Francisco episode.
8) The Golden Girls: You gotta read this article about a recent Pride Month panel devoted to the show--that is, unless you want to believe Bea Arthur and Betty White were pals.
9) National Kissing Day: I found my thrill...on Blueberry Hill...
10) R.I.P.. Gailard Sartain: Talk about a guy with a body--and a name--for comedy.
1) Father's Day: You know what that means! To all you fathers out there, happy birthday!
2) Too Close for Comfort: Antenna TV has a marathon of the Eighties sitcom today because when you think of TV dads, you think of Henry Rush!
3) My Two Dads: Rewind has a marathon today because when you think of TV dads, you--Well, hey, in this case you get TWO dads, so why complain?
4) Portrait of the Press: 40 years ago tonight, this edition of NBC White Paper looked at the news media (What, you were expecting a rumination on Nolan Richardson's full-court press at the University of Arkansas)? There was some behind-the-scenes drama with CBS apparently refusing to authorize use of its news clips. They should have talked about that for an hour!
5) Pryor's Place: The comedian's children's show aired for the final time on CBS 40 years ago this morning and made it an entire 9 months without any "m-----------"s being uttered. Unfortunately, the streak ended the next week when Land of the Lost aired in the same timeslot.
6) Eischeid: Because any new-to-me promo for this show deserves some attention!
7) The French Open: An instant classic aired on TNT last weekend, but 50 years ago today, Bjorn Borg dispatched Guillermo Vilas in straight sets.
8) Courteney Cox: Happy birthday to the Misfits of Science star!
9) WPIX: Happy birthday to my favorite TV station of my youth, New York's Channel 11, which debuted on this day in 1948. I'd like to think its first broadcast was The Honeymooners, even though it hadn't been created yet.
